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Thread: Razorlab's 'simple' build

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    Senior Member razorlab's Avatar
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    Razorlab's 'simple' build

    I realized I haven't put my build thread here so I figured I'll start it with my latest update...

    -----------------

    First track day of 2016 and first track day since last August where I kept having fuel starvation...

    Bunch of changes to the car this time.



    Track day
    3/19/16
    Thunderhill Raceway
    Willows, CA

    Current modifications for the event:

    Changes from last time, marked in bold.

    2014 Evo GSR with SSSL package

    Power:
    Resonated test pipe
    Magnaflow catback with MAP 3" mod
    AEM intake
    Depo upper IC pipe
    GM 3 port boost solenoid
    ID1000cc injectors
    AGP FMIC
    Radium surge tank setup
    Walbro 450 E85 pump in surge tank
    OEM pump in OEM tank
    E75 fuel (E50-E60 last time)


    Handling:
    Ohlins coilovers with 10k/10k spring rates
    Whiteline rear swaybar, set at medium
    Nitto NT01 275/35/18 tires
    Enkei NT03+M 18x10.5 +30 wheels
    +12mm front hub/wheel centric spacers

    Whiteline KTA135 Rear LCA's
    -3.2 (from -3.0 before) front camber, -2.1 (from -2.0 before) rear camber, 0 toe

    Brakes:
    Raybestos ST47 front pads
    Raybestos ST43 rear pads
    Centric Premium front rotors

    Torque RT700 brake fluid

    Overall:
    Holy crap the car is capable now! Holy crap the brakes are loud now! Oh my gawd, I can finally go full throttle in left turns now!

    The radium surge setup worked flawlessly. It was such a joy to not have to worry about fuel starvation anymore. I ran it under half a tank a couple sessions with no issues whatsoever.

    Car is so responsive and easy to manage now with the new suspension and wheel/tire setup. It handles wonderfully, super communicative, quick steering inputs to bring the tail back in line don't upset the car more like it used to. It's a dream to drive now. I can't wait until I get fully used to the new setup, it's FAST.

    This brake pad combo is killer. I didn't worry about my brakes whatsoever all day long, however they are LOUD AS HELL. I drove to the track with the pads in like I did with my other setup but I don't think I will again. By the time I got home after the event I wanted to kill myself and I'm sure every body around me in traffic did too. Haha.

    I'm keeping the car as is for now and just going to drive it and pick away at the lap times. This is seriously the best setup car I've owned so far.

    Crazy traffic on the track. I literally never got a clean lap in any session. I still ran faster then I did before which means once I finally get some clean laps the car should be putting down some great times. I'm moving back to the Open/Advanced group for the next event so hopefully then.

    Enjoy the video. Did I mention the brakes are loud as hell?

    Last edited by razorlab; 03-20-2016 at 03:30 PM.

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    Nice man. How well are those NT03s fitting with that offset?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Senior Member razorlab's Avatar
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    Another track event yesterday. It was a day of both joy and sorrow...

    The joy was I blew my personal best out of the water and put down a 2:03 lap time, which is only 1 sec off my best I ever did with my Evo 8 at the same track. Super impressed with the Evo 10 now that I have it set up correctly.

    I also had an awesome session dueling with a very well setup, driven and powerful VW GTi that impressed me. Had a blast this session:



    The sorrow...

    The next and last session out the car lost all power coming out of turn one and didn't want to rev. No smoke, no liquid trail behind the car so I limped it into the pits.

    Car sounded like it was only running on three cylinders. Pulled the plugs and cylinder number four had a nice present for me....



    :crap:

    Put a fresh set of plugs in hoping maybe I got lucky and no luck, still three cylinders only.

    :crap:

    So I had a nice 144 mile tow home...



    At least the driver was a super cool guy which made the trip seem short.

    Logs where clean that session until I hit the rev limiter coming into the front straight and it registered a 17 knock count. Not sure if that was the unlucky moment that the plug decided to peace out but I did WOT all the way down the straight (I didn't notice the knock light because it happened in a high G right turn) to 125mph (and the log was clean) and then the car called it quits powering out of turn one at the end of the straight. Interesting enough the logs where clean except for that 17 count event, so I'm assuming that was the fate and I got unlucky.

    I was so beat by the time I got home I just pushed the car into the driveway and went to bed.

    Going to do a compression check this weekend and cross my fingers it's just the top end and not the bottom end...

    Situation sucks but for doing track events for more than 15 years now and this was the first engine failure, I guess it was just a matter of time, and that time struck yesterday...

  4. #4
    Senior Member razorlab's Avatar
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    Today I borescoped the cylinders and did a compression check to try and see what happened.

    Well I found out one thing for certain. It's engine rebuild time

    btw, I bought this USB borescope on Amazon for $20. It works excellent. The only thing is it was hard to bend to see the cylinder walls (and don't even think about seeing the valves) but I saw enough to know...

    Compression check:



    Borescope in Cyl #4:














    Not sure where the oil is coming from as the piston is intact from what I could see. Perhaps forced past the rings?

    I'm assuming I melted a valve. Not sure if the plug failed first and took out the valve or the valve melted and melted the plug. Once the head comes off maybe I will see more of the story.

    Good news is, Here is what the other three cylinders looked like. This engine has been on E85 since 900 miles. It now has 19,000 miles. Pistons tops are SOOO clean! Go ethanol!





    The one valve side doesn't even have any carbon on it!

    Dead plug #4:






    So now, the big question. Who is building good motors these days? I know I want something stout since I'm going to continue to track the car. I don't need a drag motor, but I'd like to at least upgrade to around a 55-60lb/min turbo at some point. Is sleeved a great thing to have for track use? Don't waste my money?

    I'm a bit out of the loop on motor options these days.

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    Razorlab's 'simple' build

    Building? @UT_EvoX @chetrickerman


    I think tephra v2 would of saved you there

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    Senior Member razorlab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xfonts View Post
    I think tephra v2 would of saved you there
    How so? I am running Tephra V3. Have all the safeguards on. Logged. No knock when it let go. It spiked full lean though, which made me let off because the car went from awesome to feeling like crap in .00003 secs. I'm assuming it was the valve melting.

    The rev limit knock count did set off TPS drop but I was already out of throttle on shift anyway.
    Last edited by razorlab; 04-16-2016 at 05:04 PM.

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    Razorlab's 'simple' build

    Quote Originally Posted by razorlab View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xfonts View Post
    I think tephra v2 would of saved you there
    How so? I am running Tephra V3. Have all the safeguards on. Logged. No knock when it let go. It spiked full lean though, which made me let off. I'm assuming it was the valve melting.
    Ahh I re-read it. In my head it seemed like it was knocking, but you're saying the knock was cause it let go at that moment

    If it was the first then tephra's knock tps limit should of saved you

  8. #8
    Senior Member razorlab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xfonts View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by razorlab View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xfonts View Post
    I think tephra v2 would of saved you there
    How so? I am running Tephra V3. Have all the safeguards on. Logged. No knock when it let go. It spiked full lean though, which made me let off. I'm assuming it was the valve melting.
    Ahh I re-read it. In my head it seemed like it was knocking, but you're saying the knock was cause it let go at that moment

    If it was the first then tephra's knock tps limit should of saved you
    Yea logs are clean. btw, the knock TPS drop feature actually doesn't really stop the knock from my experience, it's you getting your foot out of it because the car feels like crap from the TPS drop that finally stops the knock. Either way, the feature works.
    Last edited by razorlab; 04-16-2016 at 05:10 PM.

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    Evo X Harlot UT_EvoX's Avatar
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    At 0 PSI, it's definitely valve damage. I'd say just pull the head and get it sorted and if the pistons or cylinder walls are fucked, pull the whole thing.

    Good luck with the rebuild. An EFR 7163 would be killer.

    Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk
    350 WHP WW Flex Fuel 2014 Evo X MR | 600 WHP OB 2008 Evo X GSR

    Evo X Builder & Tuner since 2009 - Boosted Mitsubishis since 2005 | Buy fuel kits, flex fuel setups, or order an e-tune online: http://www.wtftuned.com/

    Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WTFTuned

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    Quote Originally Posted by UT_EvoX View Post
    At 0 PSI, it's definitely valve damage. I'd say just pull the head and get it sorted and if the pistons or cylinder walls are fucked, pull the whole thing.

    Good luck with the rebuild. An EFR 7163 would be killer.

    Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk
    Oh nowwww you want to back the 7163 >.< lol but yes! Do it!!!

  11. #11
    Senior Member Black E's Avatar
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    Some OEM sleeves have let go on "built" motors as low as 500whp DJ, but I have a feeling it was more due to tuning/hardware issues. I personally had my OEM longblock (except for cams + springs) up to 590whp DJ and I pulled the motors while still in good running condition.
    If I was going to do a 550-600 weekend warrior I would skip the sleeves and do a nice Carrillo Pro-H and 10.1CR CP pistons (because e85) with the standard wrist pins to keep everything nice and light, you don't even need to upgrade to the CARR rod bolts.

  12. #12
    Senior Member pistolpete69916's Avatar
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    I think bryan would fucking love a 7163 lol

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    Global Mod of Stuffs Locust's Avatar
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    @razorlab you could take it down to @Bakaunchi at 5150 in Socal, too. Closer to you than some of the other places suggested. No idea who is doing them in northern Cal these days.

    2012 EvoX MR - 11.289 @ 123.24mph
    2015 Scion FR-S - D-Street in SCCA Solo II
    Info/Pics: Instagram / Build Thread
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    I have a spare motor....

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    Senior Member chetrickerman's Avatar
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    You would absolutely love a 7163

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    Senior Member razorlab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black E View Post
    If I was going to do a 550-600 weekend warrior I would skip the sleeves and do a nice Carrillo Pro-H and 10.1CR CP pistons (because e85) with the standard wrist pins to keep everything nice and light, you don't even need to upgrade to the CARR rod bolts.
    What about a 2.2L, I would have to sleeve for that if I wanted to keep the motor squarish and do the 2.2L via big bore, right?

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    Senior Member chetrickerman's Avatar
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    Yes you would have to sleeve if you want to do the 2.2L big bore vs the 2.2L stroker

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    Senior Member Nate's Avatar
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    Sucks to see man; hope you get sorted out and are happier with the end result once built.
    2010 GG Evo X

    Power:
    AMS Down-pipe, MAP Resonated TP, UR Dual Exhaust, ETS Intake, Grimspeed 3 Port, Synapse DV, AMS Inter-cooler, MAP UICP and
    Tuned by Chet using EcuFlash
    Interior:
    AEM Boost and Wideband Gauges
    Suspension & Handling:
    Ohlin R&T Coilovers w/ 10k/10k springs

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    Senior Member Black E's Avatar
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    Yeah if you over bore of any amount you would definitely want to sleeve.
    You want to keep it simple, so keep the 86mm bore and that way you can use off the shelf pistons and not have to sleeve. The sleeves will add ~$1500 to the cost (plus months of down time) and the 90mm pistons are ~$300 more then 86mm. If you wanted to do a 2.2 stroker then your looking at ~+$2k over a standard build. These numbers are not exact, you may pay less or more depending on who does the work.

    To me on the street a 2.0 10.1CR feels just like a 90mm bore 2.2 9.0CR.

  20. #20
    Senior Member razorlab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black E View Post
    Yeah if you over bore of any amount you would definitely want to sleeve.
    You want to keep it simple, so keep the 86mm bore and that way you can use off the shelf pistons and not have to sleeve. The sleeves will add ~$1500 to the cost (plus months of down time) and the 90mm pistons are ~$300 more then 86mm. If you wanted to do a 2.2 stroker then your looking at ~+$2k over a standard build. These numbers are not exact, you may pay less or more depending on who does the work.

    To me on the street a 2.0 10.1CR feels just like a 90mm bore 2.2 9.0CR.
    Yea I'm finding that out as I dive into this more. The cost is exponential.

    I've tuned a bunch of higher CR evos and they have always felt great. I'm even tempted to do a 10.5:1 CR but that might be a bit nuts.

    So, if I'm looking for a max 500whp build on E85, I shouldn't even bother with a sleeved block?

    I'd love to use less boost to make power. Hence the higher CR idea. Hoping the walls aren't scored too badly...

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    Senior Member pistolpete69916's Avatar
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    I went 10.0 CR w/ 90mm bore. Price between 86, 87, 88, and 90 for CP are all identical. I see zero reason not to go 2.2, cost is the same if youre gonna sleeve anyways.

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    Senior Member razorlab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistolpete69916 View Post
    I went 10.0 CR w/ 90mm bore. Price between 86, 87, 88, and 90 for CP are all identical. I see zero reason not to go 2.2, cost is the same if youre gonna sleeve anyways.
    Sleeved though at 90mm, correct?

  23. #23
    Senior Member Black E's Avatar
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    ^^you have to add the cost of the extra mashining to 90mm and the need for heavy duty head studs.

    Razor, if your block is good (aka not have to bore it out to work) and your only after 500whp, then I don't see the need for sleeves. On e85 you know you could do 10.5CR and have a even more efficient engine. If you do end up having to bore then sleeve it and do whatever bore size your heart desires....but I would think that you know from experience that the 2.0 is the more reliable setup.

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    Exact "Square" motor doesn't have any magical advantage.
    2.3L Fully Built MR, 640whp on E100 EFR7670 T4 EWG. Struggling with local shops and customs.

  25. #25
    Senior Member razorlab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black E View Post
    ^^you have to add the cost of the extra mashining to 90mm and the need for heavy duty head studs.
    Why the need for HD head studs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Black E View Post
    Razor, if your block is good (aka not have to bore it out to work) and your only after 500whp, then I don't see the need for sleeves. On e85 you know you could do 10.5CR and have a even more efficient engine. If you do end up having to bore then sleeve it and do whatever bore size your heart desires....but I would think that you know from experience that the 2.0 is the more reliable setup.
    You are right, the 2.0 has always been the best. Thanks for the sanity check.

    So... 2.0L and 10.5:1 CR with what pistons/rods? Carillo? Who makes the best?

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