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Thread: 2015/6 SM (Street Mod / Spend Money) Autocross Discussion

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    Administrator RyanCB's Avatar
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    2015/6 SM (Street Mod / Spend Money) Autocross Discussion

    Thread for all things Street Mod related with SCCA Solo.

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    Senior Member flawlessninja's Avatar
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    Why the EFF does adding an RCA kit put you in SM?? So stupid...

    This is old news for me... but I'm still bitter about it. haha
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    Global Mod of Stuffs Locust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flawlessninja View Post
    Why the EFF does adding an RCA kit put you in SM?? So stupid...

    This is old news for me... but I'm still bitter about it. haha
    So does an oil cooler, fuel filter, transmission cooler, etc. Gave up caring about my Evo's the day I first got it out there as it's just not worth it.

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    Administrator RyanCB's Avatar
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    With non USDM crash bar Joey you're not even technically in sm anymore. Trans cooler is legal in SP but you can't change the pan. I agree on the roll center kit being stupid same as not being able to do the Dodson sump kit in SP. But rules are rules and unless people write letters they won't ever change.

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    Global Mod of Stuffs Locust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanCB View Post
    With non USDM crash bar Joey you're not even technically in sm anymore. Trans cooler is legal in SP but you can't change the pan. I agree on the roll center kit being stupid same as not being able to do the Dodson sump kit in SP. But rules are rules and unless people write letters they won't ever change.
    I still have the OEM one I'm not sure I'll ever run SM again, though. Seems like it's going to be a BSCC car now.

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    Senior Member Exyia's Avatar
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    mini discussion bump - out of boredom and because I'll need to start off with a bit of autox with how much my front diff repair cost me

    to put things in perspective, what are we expecting jumping from ASP to SM?

    PAX (as much as I just don't care about it) would give you the impression of "not much", but at your events, what are you seeing? Are the SM cars performing at a noticeable level above SP?

    To me, I just don't see much changing other than a bit faster straight sections. Since I have an SST, I'm thinking the extra power shouldn't be too much of a hassle, nor should the later spool up on a 35r be that big of a hindrance - I hardly ever went below 4k on autox, despite everyone having an impression of autox as all tight corners for go-karts

    SP's rule set blends so well with Evo X's, that SM doesn't really open up to many more mods that we haven't already done - just built motor and bigger turbo. RCK's are allowed, but that's about it....we could already go as wide as we wanted on tire in SP

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    Global Mod of Stuffs Locust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exyia View Post
    mini discussion bump - out of boredom and because I'll need to start off with a bit of autox with how much my front diff repair cost me

    to put things in perspective, what are we expecting jumping from ASP to SM?

    PAX (as much as I just don't care about it) would give you the impression of "not much", but at your events, what are you seeing? Are the SM cars performing at a noticeable level above SP?

    To me, I just don't see much changing other than a bit faster straight sections. Since I have an SST, I'm thinking the extra power shouldn't be too much of a hassle, nor should the later spool up on a 35r be that big of a hindrance - I hardly ever went below 4k on autox, despite everyone having an impression of autox as all tight corners for go-karts

    SP's rule set blends so well with Evo X's, that SM doesn't really open up to many more mods that we haven't already done - just built motor and bigger turbo. RCK's are allowed, but that's about it....we could already go as wide as we wanted on tire in SP
    Not much of a difference until you get into the weight cutting aspect. I don't know if there are any X's around the country that are built purely to SM spec but I believe I've seen @RyanCB's car be competitive in SM at a National Pro when it's actually an ASP car.

    The big difference isn't with the X so much as with the other cars you have to run against.

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    Senior Member Exyia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locust View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Exyia View Post
    mini discussion bump - out of boredom and because I'll need to start off with a bit of autox with how much my front diff repair cost me

    to put things in perspective, what are we expecting jumping from ASP to SM?

    PAX (as much as I just don't care about it) would give you the impression of "not much", but at your events, what are you seeing? Are the SM cars performing at a noticeable level above SP?

    To me, I just don't see much changing other than a bit faster straight sections. Since I have an SST, I'm thinking the extra power shouldn't be too much of a hassle, nor should the later spool up on a 35r be that big of a hindrance - I hardly ever went below 4k on autox, despite everyone having an impression of autox as all tight corners for go-karts

    SP's rule set blends so well with Evo X's, that SM doesn't really open up to many more mods that we haven't already done - just built motor and bigger turbo. RCK's are allowed, but that's about it....we could already go as wide as we wanted on tire in SP
    Not much of a difference until you get into the weight cutting aspect. I don't know if there are any X's around the country that are built purely to SM spec but I believe I've seen @RyanCB's car be competitive in SM at a National Pro when it's actually an ASP car.

    The big difference isn't with the X so much as with the other cars you have to run against.
    Right, but what exactly when you step up? it's always brought up in idea, but never discussed...so let's put them on the table to discuss

    I know that red and black pair of RX7's are popular in SSM every year in nationals, but can't remember for the life of me what's the popular car in SM....other than older gen Evo's (but again, I've been off the scene while finishing this build so...idk)

    if we're still top of the pack in SM, then I don't see a point in going extreme weight savings. If anything, for Evo X owners SM is just SP that goes faster. Just show up prepped like we always were, just with 200+ more whp than before

    if we're still competing against older gen Evo's....I'm not sure the performance delta (if you personally still think there is a noteable one between the generations) changes at all when the rule set is expanded to SM. VIII/IX's still deal with differentials and gearing (if not more so), we don't really deal with anything other than increased weight as always. I guess if you're a GSR gearing could still be a problem. Being able to build the motor and go big turbo doesn't really mean anything when you can do both and make equal power on both

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    Global Mod of Stuffs Locust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exyia View Post
    Right, but what exactly when you step up? it's always brought up in idea, but never discussed...so let's put them on the table to discuss

    I know that red and black pair of RX7's are popular in SSM every year in nationals, but can't remember for the life of me what's the popular car in SM....other than older gen Evo's (but again, I've been off the scene while finishing this build so...idk)

    if we're still top of the pack in SM, then I don't see a point in going extreme weight savings. If anything, for Evo X owners SM is just SP that goes faster. Just show up prepped like we always were, just with 200+ more whp than before

    if we're still competing against older gen Evo's....I'm not sure the performance delta (if you personally still think there is a noteable one between the generations) changes at all when the rule set is expanded to SM. VIII/IX's still deal with differentials and gearing (if not more so), we don't really deal with anything other than increased weight as always. I guess if you're a GSR gearing could still be a problem. Being able to build the motor and go big turbo doesn't really mean anything when you can do both and make equal power on both
    240sx, R35 GT-R, and Evo 9 are your primary competition. I've also seen some very well prepped SM FR-S/BRZ cars that are just stepping into it. The GT-R was only moved to SSM for the Pro so you still have to deal with it in regular Solo events. 240sx is king of the class right now, though. Took 1st & 2nd place last year followed by the Hyman GT-R, a '96 328i, and then 240sx again.

    Last I heard the index value on SM was soft but it could have been changed. I haven't heard anyone locally grumble about it lately since the Hymans didn't run their GT-R in our OPAX class this year.

    No one is running an Evo X in SM at nationals. No one is running one in ANY class that I can find. Not last year. Not this year. I can't tell you definitively if this is because no one has tried it yet or because it just can't be competitive nationally but it certainly has a severe disadvantage due to it's weight and turn in. Minimum weight for the Evo X in SM is about 2,800lbs but there's no way to even get it under 3,100 and stay within SM rules.

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    Senior Member Exyia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locust View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Exyia View Post
    Right, but what exactly when you step up? it's always brought up in idea, but never discussed...so let's put them on the table to discuss

    I know that red and black pair of RX7's are popular in SSM every year in nationals, but can't remember for the life of me what's the popular car in SM....other than older gen Evo's (but again, I've been off the scene while finishing this build so...idk)

    if we're still top of the pack in SM, then I don't see a point in going extreme weight savings. If anything, for Evo X owners SM is just SP that goes faster. Just show up prepped like we always were, just with 200+ more whp than before

    if we're still competing against older gen Evo's....I'm not sure the performance delta (if you personally still think there is a noteable one between the generations) changes at all when the rule set is expanded to SM. VIII/IX's still deal with differentials and gearing (if not more so), we don't really deal with anything other than increased weight as always. I guess if you're a GSR gearing could still be a problem. Being able to build the motor and go big turbo doesn't really mean anything when you can do both and make equal power on both
    240sx, R35 GT-R, and Evo 9 are your primary competition. I've also seen some very well prepped SM FR-S/BRZ cars that are just stepping into it. The GT-R was only moved to SSM for the Pro so you still have to deal with it in regular Solo events. 240sx is king of the class right now, though. Took 1st & 2nd place last year followed by the Hyman GT-R, a '96 328i, and then 240sx again.

    Last I heard the index value on SM was soft but it could have been changed. I haven't heard anyone locally grumble about it lately since the Hymans didn't run their GT-R in our OPAX class this year.

    No one is running an Evo X in SM at nationals. No one is running one in ANY class that I can find. Not last year. Not this year. I can't tell you definitively if this is because no one has tried it yet or because it just can't be competitive nationally but it certainly has a severe disadvantage due to it's weight and turn in. Minimum weight for the Evo X in SM is about 2,800lbs but there's no way to even get it under 3,100 and stay within SM rules.
    R35 I'm not that worried about - half because none show up for SCCA, and the other half I just don't think it's competitive enough in an autox environment (more the first half though - just haven't met that many good drivers in one)

    240SX I have hardly seen at autox at all. Houston has a big drifter scene so that's where most of those cars end up. I'm not sure what would make these competitive.....other than maybe potential weight when fully stripped?

    Evo 9 - as discussed

    How are SM FRS/BRZ in the scene? got any example builds you've seen? back when I was still in it, they were just becoming available

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    Global Mod of Stuffs Locust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exyia View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Locust View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Exyia View Post
    Right, but what exactly when you step up? it's always brought up in idea, but never discussed...so let's put them on the table to discuss

    I know that red and black pair of RX7's are popular in SSM every year in nationals, but can't remember for the life of me what's the popular car in SM....other than older gen Evo's (but again, I've been off the scene while finishing this build so...idk)

    if we're still top of the pack in SM, then I don't see a point in going extreme weight savings. If anything, for Evo X owners SM is just SP that goes faster. Just show up prepped like we always were, just with 200+ more whp than before

    if we're still competing against older gen Evo's....I'm not sure the performance delta (if you personally still think there is a noteable one between the generations) changes at all when the rule set is expanded to SM. VIII/IX's still deal with differentials and gearing (if not more so), we don't really deal with anything other than increased weight as always. I guess if you're a GSR gearing could still be a problem. Being able to build the motor and go big turbo doesn't really mean anything when you can do both and make equal power on both
    240sx, R35 GT-R, and Evo 9 are your primary competition. I've also seen some very well prepped SM FR-S/BRZ cars that are just stepping into it. The GT-R was only moved to SSM for the Pro so you still have to deal with it in regular Solo events. 240sx is king of the class right now, though. Took 1st & 2nd place last year followed by the Hyman GT-R, a '96 328i, and then 240sx again.

    Last I heard the index value on SM was soft but it could have been changed. I haven't heard anyone locally grumble about it lately since the Hymans didn't run their GT-R in our OPAX class this year.

    No one is running an Evo X in SM at nationals. No one is running one in ANY class that I can find. Not last year. Not this year. I can't tell you definitively if this is because no one has tried it yet or because it just can't be competitive nationally but it certainly has a severe disadvantage due to it's weight and turn in. Minimum weight for the Evo X in SM is about 2,800lbs but there's no way to even get it under 3,100 and stay within SM rules.
    R35 I'm not that worried about - half because none show up for SCCA, and the other half I just don't think it's competitive enough in an autox environment (more the first half though - just haven't met that many good drivers in one)

    240SX I have hardly seen at autox at all. Houston has a big drifter scene so that's where most of those cars end up. I'm not sure what would make these competitive.....other than maybe potential weight when fully stripped?

    Evo 9 - as discussed

    How are SM FRS/BRZ in the scene? got any example builds you've seen? back when I was still in it, they were just becoming available
    R35 not competitive in auto-x environment? Hmm try telling that to the multi-time champion R35 driver. Maybe there are none in your area but there could be soon. The Hymans just moved and I believe it was down to Texas but I don't remember if they moved to Austin, Houston, or somewhere else. You asked about competition and that's what your competition typically is. I can't tell you what your local club is going to have because there are all sorts of cars shoved into SM even though they suck in that class. Locally we only have one or two cars in SM each event (most people that don't have a 3+ driver class just go to OPAX or NSPAX to get competition) but I don't know if it's like that everywhere. Yes, 240sx is top dawg in that class mostly because it can cut down to the minimum weight rather easily and is very nimble.

    SM FR-S/BRZ drivers... start here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85774 I believe I saw 2 or 3 of them in the lineup for this weekend so I'll let you know how they do. Last year there was 1 and it was mid-pack.

    http://www.houscca.com/solo/results/15reg06_fin.htm#SM Your competition. You could find these things if you tried. Just google SCCA Houston Solo or w/e your SCCA region would be.

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    Senior Member Exyia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locust View Post
    R35 not competitive in auto-x environment? Hmm try telling that to the multi-time champion R35 driver. Maybe there are none in your area but there could be soon. The Hymans just moved and I believe it was down to Texas but I don't remember if they moved to Austin, Houston, or somewhere else. You asked about competition and that's what your competition typically is. I can't tell you what your local club is going to have because there are all sorts of cars shoved into SM even though they suck in that class. Locally we only have one or two cars in SM each event (most people that don't have a 3+ driver class just go to OPAX or NSPAX to get competition) but I don't know if it's like that everywhere. Yes, 240sx is top dawg in that class mostly because it can cut down to the minimum weight rather easily and is very nimble.

    SM FR-S/BRZ drivers... start here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85774 I believe I saw 2 or 3 of them in the lineup for this weekend so I'll let you know how they do. Last year there was 1 and it was mid-pack.

    http://www.houscca.com/solo/results/15reg06_fin.htm#SM Your competition. You could find these things if you tried. Just google SCCA Houston Solo or w/e your SCCA region would be.
    have a bad day or something? you act as if I've never autox'd before. Yes, I know how to look up MY local competition.....

    and yes, 2 years ago R35's were non-existent and the few that were shouted for lower classing in order to increase attendance. back then the only ones willing to thrash on GTR's were ones with too much money and they would just do track days

    the point of the discussion was to weed out all the entries of SM into cars/builds into ones that actually present competition to the EvoX. in my local area and the national tour that stops by here, it is only the above (but we have a huge SSM scene). Going off just my local scene never would have told me that 240SX's were a thing....which again....was the point of bringing up the question...

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    Global Mod of Stuffs Locust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exyia View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Locust View Post
    R35 not competitive in auto-x environment? Hmm try telling that to the multi-time champion R35 driver. Maybe there are none in your area but there could be soon. The Hymans just moved and I believe it was down to Texas but I don't remember if they moved to Austin, Houston, or somewhere else. You asked about competition and that's what your competition typically is. I can't tell you what your local club is going to have because there are all sorts of cars shoved into SM even though they suck in that class. Locally we only have one or two cars in SM each event (most people that don't have a 3+ driver class just go to OPAX or NSPAX to get competition) but I don't know if it's like that everywhere. Yes, 240sx is top dawg in that class mostly because it can cut down to the minimum weight rather easily and is very nimble.

    SM FR-S/BRZ drivers... start here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85774 I believe I saw 2 or 3 of them in the lineup for this weekend so I'll let you know how they do. Last year there was 1 and it was mid-pack.

    http://www.houscca.com/solo/results/15reg06_fin.htm#SM Your competition. You could find these things if you tried. Just google SCCA Houston Solo or w/e your SCCA region would be.
    have a bad day or something? you act as if I've never autox'd before. Yes, I know how to look up MY local competition.....

    and yes, 2 years ago R35's were non-existent and the few that were shouted for lower classing in order to increase attendance. back then the only ones willing to thrash on GTR's were ones with too much money and they would just do track days

    the point of the discussion was to weed out all the entries of SM into cars/builds into ones that actually present competition to the EvoX. in my local area and the national tour that stops by here, it is only the above (but we have a huge SSM scene). Going off just my local scene never would have told me that 240SX's were a thing....which again....was the point of bringing up the question...
    https://www.google.com/search?espv=2...90.-cHJtjaZ3EM

    Well that is the answer: 240sx, R35 GT-R, Evo 8/9. And you've got the best R-35 in the country in your state now so I'm sure he'll be at your NT. If you can beat those three consistently in an X I'd love to see it. The X is more competitive at Pros because the GT-R is out and the 240 loses a full second (combined both sides) on the launch.

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    Senior Member flawlessninja's Avatar
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    I wish we had prosolos locally... one of these days I'm going to do one...

    Speaking of weight, what does the GTR get down to? I'm sure the 240 makes minimum weight in SM, but I have a feeling the GTR is comparable to the X in terms of shedding weight off... The GTR probably makes a ton more power to make up for it though...
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    Global Mod of Stuffs Locust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flawlessninja View Post
    I wish we had prosolos locally... one of these days I'm going to do one...

    Speaking of weight, what does the GTR get down to? I'm sure the 240 makes minimum weight in SM, but I have a feeling the GTR is comparable to the X in terms of shedding weight off... The GTR probably makes a ton more power to make up for it though...
    You could make an NWR Pro next year if you really tried. We're not too far from you. We're one of the only regions in the country that does their own.

    Minimum weight 3,100lbs. I don't remember what Eric told me when I asked him but I think his GT-R was in the 3,400-3,500 range.

    Calculation is 1800lbs + 300lbs per liter + 1.4 liters for turbo but NO car will be required to weigh more than 3,100lbs regardless of displacement. Evo (all) minimum weight is 2,820. It's 2,620 if you run tires 275mm or less.

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    Senior Member flawlessninja's Avatar
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    Yeah... My Evo's "race weight" is 3620 lbs with me in the car... lol no chance I'm dropping 1000 lbs out of that thing.

    I think the best way to be competitive in an Evo is to get a fully-prepped IX.

    The Hymans' GTR is just insane though... and they know how to drive it.
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    Global Mod of Stuffs Locust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flawlessninja View Post
    Yeah... My Evo's "race weight" is 3620 lbs with me in the car... lol no chance I'm dropping 1000 lbs out of that thing.

    I think the best way to be competitive in an Evo is to get a fully-prepped IX.

    The Hymans' GTR is just insane though... and they know how to drive it.
    SM weight is without you in the car.

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    Administrator RyanCB's Avatar
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    @Exyia the biggest thing with a x in SM is more power like you're saying. However the berry/grice combo is an ASP built 9 and they are known for jumping in SM to make classes and still winning. SM to me is just to make the car more reliable for having fun at auto-x. The whole fuel starve thing still pisses me off but at least with the return line mod and retune it hasn't creped up unless I run on a blinking light more than a lap or two. Tom and Marshal really have the car dialed and can put it down when they need to. FYI @Locust my x was at nationals last year...I had my ass handed to me between first time at nats and just not having the car sorted and the skill difference nationally. Unless you're top paxing locally prepare to have your feels hurt at nationals lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanCB View Post
    @Exyia the biggest thing with a x in SM is more power like you're saying. However the berry/grice combo is an ASP built 9 and they are known for jumping in SM to make classes and still winning. SM to me is just to make the car more reliable for having fun at auto-x. The whole fuel starve thing still pisses me off but at least with the return line mod and retune it hasn't creped up unless I run on a blinking light more than a lap or two. Tom and Marshal really have the car dialed and can put it down when they need to. FYI @Locust my x was at nationals last year...I had my ass handed to me between first time at nats and just not having the car sorted and the skill difference nationally. Unless you're top paxing locally prepare to have your feels hurt at nationals lol.
    @ National Championships? Must have missed that in the results I was looking at all the cars in SM, ASP, BS, FP, and XP but that PDF is a little hard to scroll through.

    2012 EvoX MR - 11.289 @ 123.24mph
    2015 Scion FR-S - D-Street in SCCA Solo II
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    Founder: Evil Apex Racing

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    Administrator RyanCB's Avatar
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    http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files...pdf?1432918110 Page 49... Getting my ass kicked lol. The pro was the same (ass kicking) but appears the results link is dead.

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    I run sm locally but none of the cars are really sm cars so it makes it kind of hard along with our lots at times could be rally cross instead. I tried the willmington pro event a month or so ago which I thought about bailing on due to mechanical but tried it anyways. a open rear diff along with a problem going on with the transfer case not working made for a painfully slow car. I still need to work on weight and such but it will not be easy in sm rules while maintaining stock seats and a/c. the car I still my daily diver. A 2.3 with a black gets me the power band to make up for weight but the diving ability is not there.

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    Has Anyone Really Been Far Even as Decided to Use Even Go Want to do Look More Like?
    Last edited by Locust; 05-12-2016 at 02:44 PM.

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